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	<title>Tim Sunter&#039;s family history &#187; Emma Marsh | Tim Sunter&#039;s family history</title>
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	<link>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk</link>
	<description>A web log of my family history research</description>
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		<title>Two views of Winterton hospital</title>
		<link>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=243</link>
		<comments>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=243#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 11:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Sunter]]></dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Emma Marsh]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=243</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From &#8216;Mother Grumble&#8217; June 1972 Two Views On A Mental Hospital In Winterton Hospital, Sedgefield, there are few wards &#8211; one female, one male and two mixed &#8211; where relatively normal people are kept as in-patients. They may be depressed, or hysterical, or nervous &#8211; and all have some mental problem; but they are in [&#8230;]]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From <a href="http://www.muthergrumble.co.uk/issue06/mg0622.htm" target="_blank">&#8216;Mother Grumble&#8217; June 1972</a></p>
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<td valign="top"><strong>Two Views On A Mental Hospital</strong></td>
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<div><strong>In Winterton Hospital, Sedgefield, there are few wards &#8211; one female, one male and two mixed &#8211; where relatively normal people are kept as in-patients. They may be depressed, or hysterical, or nervous &#8211; and all have some mental problem; but they are in no sense of the word insane. Many have had treatment as out-patients before they were finally committed to hospital.<span id="more-243"></span></strong></div>
<p>In this sense, the wards represent a failure on the doctor&#8217;s part to help people, in that they have been forced to take normal people out of their normal environment and place them in an asylum built for lunatics.</p>
<p>While not suggesting that Winterton is totally ineffective where the insane are concerned, the central failure of the system lies in this: all the sane patients are very sensitive people, people who are liable to be hurt more easily by the strains and tensions of ordinary life, and to one who has actually been a patient it is obvious that Winterton, rather than removing the strains, substitutes others of its own. To the sensitive, it is often an ordeal to have to meet and deal with the mentally subnormal who are allowed out into the grounds of the hospital; to married men and women of middle age it is humiliating to have to ask the permission of a young girl nurse before they can even go out to buy a packet of cigarettes; frequently the patients in one ward have nothing in common with each other but their depression, and conversation becomes morbid, leading the patients to brood more and more on their individual difficulties. Many are left with no idea of how long they will be in, and they are frightened and frustrated by the feeling of being caught up in an impersonal machine over which they have no control.</p>
<p><strong><span style="font-size: small;">Unfreedom</span></strong><br />
The layout of the female ward consists of a dormitory, a room containing few beds, several single rooms, a lounge-cum-dining room, plus toilets and bathrooms etc. Some of the toilets have no locks on them. The decoration is bright and cheerful, and many improvements have been made in the last two years. But the atmosphere is inevitably one of an institution. Mealtimes, times of getting up and going to bed are rigidly regulated, and the patients are expected to help with ward duties which are sometimes distasteful. One patient, told to clean out the toilets, was angry and distressed. Under-staffed as Winterton is, restrictions on freedom are inevitable; but it can seriously be doubted whether the three nurses on duty should have to look after so many patients at once.</p>
<p>But then the question arises &#8211; what can Winterton do to help? So many of the patients have been in these wards for periods of years, and so many speak of having to come back inside time and again, that the system must be defective somewhere. Treatment basically consists of prescribed tablets for all, electroconvulsive therapy for most &#8211; out-patients can also have these &#8211; and occupational therapy for those who choose it. All are encouraged to take part in the latter, and its main value lies in teaching patients a hobby for when they come out. The women can learn crocheting, knitting, sewing, basket-weaving and other things. Some, of course, don&#8217;t enjoy handicrafts; nothing is provided for them except the hospital library.</p>
<p>But all this treatment seems to be basically inadequate for perhaps the majority. One has to discount, of course, the overload of geriatric patients who simply cannot look after themselves and are in hospital because there&#8217;s nowhere else for them to go. This is a problem that the National Health Service is in no position to solve, purely because of the lack of trained staff. If there were more nurses, geriatric patients could go into a geriatric ward or hospital, and leave the beds in mental hospitals for mental patients. If, of course, it is worth calling the sane mental patients.</p>
<p><strong><span style="font-size: small;">Apathy</span></strong><br />
The atmosphere in the ward is generally one of apathy. People sit smoking and staring about. There is not much conversation &#8211; markedly not amongst the middle-aged people. One feels that the patients, by the very fact of having nothing to do, are losing what capabilities for normal life they may have. Certainly the number of long-term patients and the number who regularly return, seem to point in that direction.</p>
<p>Why no group therapy? The mornings are unoccupied, and so are the evenings unless visitors come. Why not get the patients out of their easy chairs and start them talking?&gt; Possibly because it is felt that a trained psychologist or psychiatrist should be in charge, and they are simply not available for more work. But purely for the sake of stopping vegetation it might at least be worth trying with one of the nursing staff in charge; some patients might be uneasy about revealing their private thoughts, but most will certainly talk if only someone will take the trouble to set the ball rolling. And at least it will make them use their minds.</p>
<p>Understaffed as Winterton may be, the nurses are not always as sympathetic as might be expected. One non-Christian patient who refused to join in singing grace was severely rated and the nasty little scene which ensued did nothing to keep other patients happy. Another girl, a student, was suddenly told to take a largactil tablet, which sent her to sleep, and she was very worried what effect this would have on her exams she was taking at the time, until another nurse was kind enough to explain that the tablets were not to be taken regularly. On the whole, shutting someone up in a hospital may stop them from committing suicide, but apparently it doesn&#8217;t stop many from wanting to. So many times the words are heard &#8220;This place makes you worse not better&#8221; &#8211; and isn&#8217;t the very fact of being shoved into a mental hospital enough to make anyone miserable and upset? An actual cure I have heard of is that of one patient who was so terrified by the atmosphere of Winterton that she discharged herself and resolved to suffer anything rather than go to a doctor and be put back in. In her case, it worked; but one wonders how many patients have left such wards and at last quietly committed suicide out of sheer inability to believe that the medical profession had any more help for them.</p>
<p><strong><span style="font-size: small;">Society</span></strong><br />
And who should help them? This is the whole crux of the matter. The reason why depressed and nervous people are sent to Winterton is because they are not accepted in normal life. People will sympathise with a broken leg, but not with fits of crying and unhappiness. So you have to go into a mental hospital, and when &#8211; or if &#8211; you come out, you are labelled a neurotic and frequently treated with contempt, even by intelligent people who should know better. The mental hospital cannot treat you. It can treat your symptoms, but it just hasn&#8217;t time to psychoanalyse every sane patient and get to the cause of your symptoms; even if it does, it can only diagnose the cause, not get down to doing something about it. If a person is depressed because he is shy and lonely, for instance, busy doctors can&#8217;t provide him with the companionship he needs.</p>
<p>The answer to the problem lies with every one of you who are reading this. Human beings are made to come into contact with each other, and in a proper society everyone will help the next person, not just dismiss them as nuisances. All of us have problems, and all of us can help. If you know somebody who develops a serious problem, don&#8217;t wash your hands of them; local GPs can prescribe to reduce depression and other sufferings, but it is only those who are willing to give their own time freely to unhappy people who can genuinely help and lighten the burden of sane cases on our mental hospitals. In the final analysis, Winterton cannot be blamed for its many failures to help the sane; psychiatric medicine is still far from being fully developed, and no doctor or nurse has the time fully to sympathise with and help an individual one of their patients. It is the apathy of society which has put sane people in mental hospitals; the blame rests with society, and society must do something about it. Whether it will or not is, of course, doubtful.</p>
<hr />Winterton Hospital is for some a home, for others a prison and for a small minority a hospital where they can receive the treatment they need in order to return to the outside world. Most of the patients in Winterton receive tablets or capsules in one form or another, which in many instances are either dropped down the toilet or simply dropped on the floor by patients who pretend they have taken them.</p>
<p>Most of these patients, I believe, could be discharged if first of all they had relations or friends who could look after them. These are the long-term patients who know the ins and outs of the place from the tea room to the betting shop; most of them having been in Winterton and other hospitals for as long as they can remember.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a home for these, and when one mentions going into a hostel they refuse, saying if they are moved they will commit suicide or run away. They have grown up in the place, know what goes on, where and when, everything they need is taken care of. In a sense, I don&#8217;t blame them for refusing to budge &#8211; if you have lived in a house all your life how would you like to be moved on into a strange place. The hospital league of friends do a great job in that they see all patients are visited at least once a year as well as raising funds for the many activities they carry out. It&#8217;s heartbreaking to know that the relatives and friends of these patients could do so much if they bothered and thought of others once in a while instead of themselves. For too long people have been saying &#8220;I&#8217;m all right Jack, look after yourself&#8221; and then going to the bingo, for a pint and even to church.</p>
<p>I can remember one instance of a minister asking for volunteers to visit Winterton, and of a congregation of over 50 at morning and evening service he got one. And then we call ourselves human. The birds of the air and wild animals have more respect for each other.</p>
<p>For the short-term patient, Winterton is just another hospital where tests are carried out and treatment given. For those receiving the electric shock treatment, a maximum of eight is given but some get six. No-one I have met likes this sort of treatment as it destroys the memory. After each shock it takes a good while for one&#8217;s memory to return, and even then, I know of people whose memory of things is not as good as before the treatment, many having to return for a further six to eight shocks.</p>
<p>This, however, is something which I cannot write about much as I haven&#8217;t had the shocks myself and if I&#8217;d been asked to have them I would probably have refused. The shocks are given twice a week and if the patient has to have the full treatment this will mean at least a month in hospital. After the last shock he will probably be discharged and become an out-patient.</p>
<p>If anyone would like to help patients in Winterton hospital, they can help in the following ways &#8211; by joining the league of friends who do a fantastic job in visiting and helping patients, or by sending donations which can be used for a variety of things such as improvements to the wards, books for the library, coach trips to the coast &#8211; to name just a few. But for many, a smile is better than a packet of smokes and to know someone cares. This is enough to help a patient get out of the shell he has put himself in and to regain his confidence. Both regular visits and donations are important. This, however, is only my view and I have no experience in any part of the medical field. I&#8217;m writing as an ex-patient and visitor.</td>
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		<title>Emma Sunter enters Winterton Hospital, 24th September 1930</title>
		<link>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=241</link>
		<comments>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=241#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 11:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Sunter]]></dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Emma Marsh]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=241</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From the brilliant Durham archives I received this information this morning: I checked an index to admissions to Winterton Hospital from 1920 to 1934 and I found the admission of Emma Sunter (no. 23047) on 24 September 1930 from area 9, Dist. 34, Jarrow. You mentioned that she died in 1978 but we only have [&#8230;]]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the brilliant Durham archives I received this information this morning:</p>
<blockquote><p>I checked an index to admissions to Winterton Hospital from 1920 to 1934 and I found the admission of Emma Sunter (no. 23047) on 24 September 1930 from area 9, Dist. 34, Jarrow. You mentioned that she died in 1978 but we only have case notes for Winterton Hospital up to 1945 and only a 2% sample of patient files (case notes) after 1945 has been retained. I checked the list of retained records but regret that your grandmother has not been included in the sample..</p></blockquote>
<p>Interesting points to note:</p>
<ol>
<li>Emma died in Winterton in 1978. There is a possibility that she spend the majority of her life in there.</li>
<li>Winterton served as the asylum for the Durham Region.</li>
<li>Jarrow and South Shields are neighbouring towns. I have some evidence that Emma&#8217;s sister Amy lived in South Shields, as well as her daughter, also Amy. Is it possible that Emma was living with sister Amy before she went to Winterton?</li>
</ol>
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		<title>Crowes &#8211; witnesses on Charles and Emma&#8217;s wedding certificate &#8211; 1911 census</title>
		<link>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=176</link>
		<comments>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=176#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Sunter]]></dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[1911]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Charles Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Emma Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[West Street]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=176</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Listed at witensses at Charles and Emma&#8217;s 1911 wedding, here is their entry, as neighbours to the happy couple, in the 1911 census.]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Listed at witensses at Charles and Emma&#8217;s 1911 wedding, here is their entry, as neighbours to the happy couple, in the 1911 census.<span id="more-176"></span><a href="http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/image.png"><img style="border-bottom: 0px; border-left: 0px; display: inline; border-top: 0px; border-right: 0px" title="image" src="http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/image_thumb.png" border="0" alt="image" width="802" height="422" /></a></p>
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		<title>Lofty enters children home</title>
		<link>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=115</link>
		<comments>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=115#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Sunter]]></dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charles Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Emma Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John William Sunter]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sunter.eu/2009/06/29/lofty-enters-children-home/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From Durham Records Office, 16th June 2009: Dear Mr. Sunter, Further to your telephone call to this Office today I have established that a William Sunter, born 1917, son of Charles and Emma, was admitted to Stockton Union Children&#8217;s Homes in January 1921.  As discussed over the telephone, if you require any further searches of [&#8230;]]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt">From Durham Records Office, 16th June 2009:</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt">Dear Mr. Sunter,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt">Further to your telephone call to this Office today I have established that a William Sunter, born 1917, son of Charles and Emma, was admitted to Stockton Union Children&#8217;s Homes in January 1921.  As discussed over the telephone, if you require any further searches of our holdings for the Homes and Stockton Poor Law Union, you will need to use our research service (see attached details and application form) and supply proof of your relationship to William Sunter.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt"></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt">In the event that you make use of the research service it would be useful to know if William had any siblings.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 12pt"><br />
</span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt">Yours sincerely,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt">County Archivist</span></p>
<p>Papers relating to individuals are confidential for 100 years.  I have therefore sent proof of my relationship and the relevant fee to enable one of the archive&#8217;s researchers to find the information I would be asking for.</p>
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		<title>Emma Sunter 1893-1978</title>
		<link>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=112</link>
		<comments>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=112#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 09:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Sunter]]></dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Emma Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jane Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John William Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John William Sunter]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sunter.eu/2009/06/27/emma-sunter-1893-1978/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Both the birth and death certificates for Lofty&#8217;s mother Emma arrived today, and, as ever there is some sadness. First the good news… The birth certificate shows that Emma was born on 16th August 1893 to John William Marsh and Jane Marsh (formerly Spencer). John William Marsh was a Pit Sinker and the family was [&#8230;]]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="margin-left: 1pt"><a href="http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/emmasunterdeath.jpg" title="Emma Sunter, death"><img src="http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/emmasunterdeath-150x150.jpg" alt="Emma Sunter, death" /></a><a href="http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/emmasunterbirth.jpg" title="Emma Sunter, Birth"><img src="http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/emmasunterbirth-150x150.jpg" alt="Emma Sunter, Birth" /></a></p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">Both the birth and death certificates for Lofty&#8217;s mother Emma arrived today, and, as ever there is some sadness.</p>
<p><span id="more-112"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">First the good news…</p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">The birth certificate shows that Emma was born on 16th August 1893 to John William Marsh and Jane Marsh (formerly Spencer). John William Marsh was a Pit Sinker and the family was living at Hickleton Main Cottages, Thurnscoe.</p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">Hickleton Main was a colliery and the cottages were provided for its workers:</p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt"><img src="http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/062709-0934-emmasunter11.png" /><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 12pt"><br />
</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 55pt"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; color: #666666; font-size: 8pt">Victorian Countryside, by G. E. Mingay &#8211; Google Books<br />
</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 55pt"><a href="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jil6nzqbZz8C&amp;pg=RA2-PA360&amp;lpg=RA2-PA360&amp;dq=Hickleton+Main+Cottages&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=oJi1qm1fRV&amp;sig=plarNIYJXvoeo1GwUl7NbYgVC84&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=gd9FSuKCCNqrjAfDx9D8AQ&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt">http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jil6nzqbZz8C&amp;pg=RA2-PA360&amp;lpg=RA2-PA360&amp;dq=Hickleton+Main+Cottages&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=oJi1qm1fRV&amp;sig=plarNIYJXvoeo1GwUl7NbYgVC84&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=gd9FSuKCCNqrjAfDx9D8AQ&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1</span></a><span style="font-family: Tahoma; color: #666666; font-size: 8pt"><br />
</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">The birth certificate gives confirmation that Emma&#8217;s mother&#8217;s maiden name was Spencer.</p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">The death certificate adds to the evidence that Emma became institutionalised.</p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">Her death was recorded as taking place at <a href="http://www.winterton-hospital.co.uk/">Winterton Hospital, Sedgefield, Durham</a> on 16th January 1978. Loft is given as the informant.</p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">Winterton Hospital appears to have been an asylum. There is no indication of how long she had been in the institution.</p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">In the nineteen seventies, when Lofty was researching his own family history, he asked me to drive him up to see his rediscovered mother.</p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">We tried to go up on a Winter&#8217;s morning, but we had to turn back because of fog on the motorway (my first experience of motorway madness). The radio was broadcasting that Graham Hill, the racing driver had died in a plane crash the day before. So this must have been 30th November 1975 (I wonder why I was off school?). The visit was rescheduled for early the following year.</p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">I remember sitting in a bay window, the light behind me, when they wheeled in Emma. Lofty gave her a hug and looked towards me with tears in his eyes &#8211; clearly moved.</p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">The nurse said to Emma &#8220;here&#8217;s your son Emma&#8221;. Her response was &#8220;Billy? Is it Billy?&#8221; and, sadly, that was about the extent of the conversation.</p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">Lofty was stoic on the way home and explained that when his father disappeared she had been put in a workhouse and had never really left institutions in one form or another.</p>
<p style="margin-left: 1pt">On Emma&#8217;s death the state, having stolen her life, having pushed her from one institution to another, having placed Lofty in a children&#8217;s home at the age of 3, sent him the bill for the funeral.</p>
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		<title>1901, Who, What , Where, When</title>
		<link>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=110</link>
		<comments>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=110#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Sunter]]></dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[1901]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ada Keziah Meredith (Hill)]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ann Badger]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Charles Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dorothy Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Edward Meredith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Edward Meredith (1876)]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Edward Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Emma Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Grace E Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Isabella Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jane Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John William Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Joseph Meredith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Joseph Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Olive J Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[William Sunter]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sunter.eu/2009/06/24/1901-who-what-where-when/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[1901, Who, What , Where, When What our ancestors were up to according to the 1901 Census&#8230; Sunter 1901 Census which shows that Charles Sunter is aged 19, a railway Stoker, and living at 5 Victoria Street, Thornaby.  Thornaby is in Stockport and just to the South East of Unicorn Yard and Brunswick Street.  I [&#8230;]]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1901, Who, What , Where, When</p>
<p>What our ancestors were up to according to the 1901 Census&#8230; <span id="more-110"></span></p>
<p><strong>Sunter</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>1901 Census which shows that Charles Sunter is aged 19, a railway Stoker, and living at 5 Victoria Street, Thornaby. </p>
<p>Thornaby is in Stockport and just to the South East of Unicorn Yard and Brunswick Street.  I cannot find Victoria Street on Google Earth although there is a Victoria Road.</p>
<p>The household is composed of:</p>
<ul>
<li>Jane A Sunter, head, widow, 57, Leadgale</li>
<li>William Sunter, stepson, single, 29, Labourer Iron Works, Yorkshire Heights Swaledale</li>
<li>Charles Sunter, son, single, 19, Railway Engin (sic) Stoker, Howden Le Wear</li>
<li>Dorothy Sunter, daughter, 13, Yorkshire Redcar</li>
<li>Gertrude Sunter, daughter, 11, Yorkshire Redcar</li>
<li>Olive J Sunter, daughter, 10, Stockton</li>
<li>Joseph Sunter, son, 6, Thornaby</li>
<li>Edward Sunter, son, 3, Thornaby</li>
</ul>
<p>Rick McGarry points out that Jane had a further son, James, in 1901. This implies that she must have been pregnant at the time of the census. Presumably William and Charles are a source of income for the family.</p></blockquote>
<p> <strong>Marsh family<br />
</strong></p>
<p>John William Marsh (33), Jane Marsh (34) and Emma Marsh (7) are living in Leeds, Yorkshire. John is listed as being born in Leeds and is a Pit Sinker; Jane was born in Liverpool; and Emma is listed as being born in Rotherham, Yorkshire.</p>
<p>Emma&#8217;s sister, Amy (15), is living at 76 Kieghley Road, Halifax. She is a servant in the Driver household. James driver, the head of the househod is a 28 year old Gas Engineer&#8217;s Cashier. His brother in law, Thomas Ask is a solicitor&#8217;s clerk.</p>
<p><strong>Merediths<br />
</strong></p>
<p>Edward Meredith (24) is living in lodging at 25 Norton Road Stourbridge. He is boarding with Walter and Caroline Knowles. Edward is a carter for a wine merchant (the career his is to follow for the rest of his life). Walter is a carter for a corn dealer. There are several other carters and a glass blower living in nearby houses.</p>
<p>Edward&#8217;s parents, Joseph and Ann, and his brother &#8211; also Joseph &#8211; are living in Kingsford Lane, Kinver. Joseph snr is an &#8216;ordinary agricultural labourer&#8217;. Joseph jnr is a &#8216;Groom domestic&#8217;.</p>
<p><strong>Hills<br />
</strong></p>
<p>The Hill family (12 of them) are Farm bailiffs at Castle Hill Farm, Wolverley. Alfred Hill is a Farm Bailiff and has responsibility for running the farm. Alfred, 19, and Fred, 15 are farm labourers. Frances May &#8211; &#8220;Auntie May&#8221; is an 8 month old baby.<br />
 <br />
 </p>
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		<title>1911, Who, What, Where, When</title>
		<link>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=109</link>
		<comments>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=109#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Sunter]]></dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[1911]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ada Keziah Meredith (Hill)]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Alice Dyer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ann Badger]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Charles Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dorothy Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Edward Meredith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Edward Meredith (1876)]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Edward Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Emma Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gertrude Witts (Meredith)]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Grace E Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hannah Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Isabella Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jane Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John William Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Joseph Meredith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Joseph Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Olive J Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[William Sunter]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sunter.eu/2009/06/24/1911-who-what-where-when/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A summary of ancestors whereabouts and goings on 98 years ago&#8230; Merediths Edward (34), Ada (34), Gertrude (1) and Edward Meredith (4) living at 3 Bath Cottages, Cecil Street Stourbridge. They have three singers lodging with them.  Joseph and Ann Meredith are living alone at Bird&#8217;s Barn, Kingsley, Wolverley. Hill Alfred (61), Alice (56), Edward (21), Sidney Walter [&#8230;]]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="margin-left: 19pt">A summary of ancestors whereabouts and goings on 98 years ago&#8230;<span id="more-109"></span> <strong>Merediths<br />
</strong></p>
<blockquote>
<p style="margin-left: 19pt">Edward (34), Ada (34), Gertrude (1) and Edward Meredith (4) living at 3 Bath Cottages, Cecil Street Stourbridge. They have three singers lodging with them. <br />
Joseph and Ann Meredith are living alone at Bird&#8217;s Barn, Kingsley, Wolverley.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Hill</strong></p>
<blockquote><p><strong><br />
</strong>Alfred (61), Alice (56), Edward (21), Sidney Walter (16), Amy Maud (14), James Earnest (12) and Frances May (10) are living at Beehive Farm, Golden Cross Lane, Catshill near Bromsgrove. Alfred , Sidney Walter and Edward are listed as farm workers and then more specifically as &#8216;haulers&#8217; working on their own account.</p></blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>Sunter (and Marsh)<br />
</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>Charles Sunter (29) is living with his soon to be wife, Emma Marsh (17). She is pregnant. They are boarding with Emma&#8217;s parents John William Marsh (45) and a Lodging House Keeper, his wife Jane (46) and their other daughter Amy Dawson who is registered on the census as married, although her husband is not with her on this night. Charles is an unemployed &#8216;fireman, locomotive&#8217;.</p>
<p>Of Charles&#8217;s family Jane Ann Sunter, his mother is in the Middlesbrough Workhouse. She is 46, a widow and working as &#8216;relife (sic) foster mother&#8217; helping to look after 12 boys aged from 5 to 15. Ironically she is not looking after her own children:</p>
<blockquote dir="ltr" style="margin-right: 0px"><p>Joe Sunter (16) and Edward (13) are living at the Edgworth National Children&#8217;s home near Bolton. Joe is listed as an office boy &#8211; it is believed he went on to be editor of the Colne Times. Edward became a Congregationalist minister and died in 1964 near Halifax.</p>
<p>A third son, James (9) is living at Long Melford in Suffolk with watch maker Robert Henry Miles (55) and his wife of two years Unity (57). Robert&#8217;s son, Reginald Victor Miles (15), a post office messenger is also living with them, along with another boarder Albert Blake, also aged 9.  </p></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote dir="ltr" style="margin-right: 0px">
<p style="margin-left: 27pt">Grace Elizabeth (26) married Alexander Crombie (45) in 1908. They are living with their one year old daughter Annie Rebecca at &#8216;Cottage rear f 89 High Street, Esplanade, Recar, Yorkshire&#8217;.</p>
<p style="margin-left: 27pt">Of Dorothy (23), Gertrude (21) and Olive (20) there is no trace in the 1911 Census. There are possible records of a marriage of a Dorothy H Sunter in 1926 and Gertrude Sunter to John McKinnel in Stockton in 1923.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="margin-left: 27pt">Jane Ann Sunter also had two step children from Joseph&#8217;s first marriage to Isabella.</p>
<blockquote>
<blockquote><p>William Sunter (38) is now living at Redcar at 3 North Terrace Coatham. He is a Labourer cycle manufacturer. He is boarding with 55 years old widow Margaret Graham and her son &#8216;Jn&#8217; who is 25 and whose occupation is described as &#8216;slater house&#8217; &#8211; possibly slaughter house?</p></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p style="margin-left: 27pt">A record of Hannah Sunter cannot be found on the 1911 census.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Which leaves further research questions: </p>
<ul>
<li>Where were Fred&#8217;s uncle and aunt&#8217;s Meredith?</li>
<li>Who is missing and where were they?</li>
</ul>
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		<title>Marriage of Charles Sunter to Emma Marsh 1911</title>
		<link>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=89</link>
		<comments>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=89#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Sunter]]></dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charles Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Emma Marsh]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sunter.eu/2009/06/10/marriage-of-charles-sunter-to-emma-marsh-1911/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/marriage-charles-and-emma-19111.jpg" title="marriage-charles-and-emma-1911.jpg"><img src="http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/marriage-charles-and-emma-19111-150x150.jpg" alt="marriage-charles-and-emma-1911.jpg" /></a></p>
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		<title>1911 Census &#8211; Charles Sunter and Emma Marsh</title>
		<link>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=10</link>
		<comments>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=10#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 16:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Sunter]]></dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[1911]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Charles Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Emma Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Howden Le Wear]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jane Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John William Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John William Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Unicorn Yard]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[West Street]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sunter.eu/2009/05/25/1911-census-charles-sunter-and-emma-marsh/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[1911 Census Charles Sunter And here it is.  The 1911 Census entry for 14 West Row Stockton on Tees. Whatever did we do before Google?  Now a Google Search confirms that Unicorn Yard and West Row were in the same place.  Google Earth shows that the location of this, and John&#8217;s birthplace in Brunswick Street [&#8230;]]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/1911censuscharlessunter.jpg" title="1911 Census Charles Sunter">1911 Census Charles Sunter</a></p>
<p>And here it is.  The 1911 Census entry for 14 West Row Stockton on Tees.</p>
<p>Whatever did we do before Google?  Now a Google Search confirms that Unicorn Yard and West Row were in the same place.  Google Earth shows that the location of this, and John&#8217;s birthplace in Brunswick Street are very close to each other.</p>
<p>Things to note:</p>
<ol>
<li>The head of the household and lodging house keeper is <em>John William Marsh</em>.  His wife is Jane Marsh.  They have been married for 26 years and are aged 45 and 40 respectively.  <strong>These are my great grandparents.</strong></li>
<li>Living with John and Jane are their surving two children (out of five) both daughters &#8211; Amy Dawson (25) and Emma Marsh (17).  Amy is an out of work servant.  She has been married for 6 years and has had three children, one of which has died.</li>
<li>There are 20 residents listed in the household &#8211; eight of whom are unemployed.  The list of trades seems to confirm the type of grim property it was.</li>
<li>The first of the boarders listed is <strong>Charles Sunter</strong>.  Can it be mere coincidence that he is first listed?  More likely there is already a relationship between Emma and Charles leading the family to list first.  Charles is a &#8216;fireman locomotive&#8217;, although out of work at the time of the census.  He is 29 years old and born in Howden Le Wear, County Durham.</li>
<li><strong>Emma</strong> <strong>and Charles</strong> are my Grandparents.</li>
<li>The information suggests that John William Sunter is named after his grandfather, John William Marsh.</li>
</ol>
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		<title>John William Sunter</title>
		<link>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=4</link>
		<comments>http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/?p=4#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 14:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Sunter]]></dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charles Sunter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Emma Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jane Marsh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John William Sunter]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sunter.eu/2009/05/25/john-william-sunter/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The birth certificate is a copy obtained by &#8216;Lofty&#8217; in 1958.  Born 19th November 1917 to Emma Sunter (formerley Marsh) and Charles Sunter.  Charles&#8217; occupation is listed on the birth certificate as &#8220;Stoker R.N. H.M.S. Mars. No. 1517 (Labourer at Engineering works).  Place of Birth is listed as 62 Brunswick Street, Stockton on Tees. The [&#8230;]]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/loftybirth.jpg" title="John William Sunter’s birth certificate"><img src="http://www.tim-sunter-family-history.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/loftybirth.jpg" alt="John William Sunter’s birth certificate" /></a>The birth certificate is a copy obtained by &#8216;Lofty&#8217; in 1958. </p>
<p>Born 19th November 1917 to Emma Sunter (formerley Marsh) and Charles Sunter.  Charles&#8217; occupation is listed on the birth certificate as &#8220;Stoker R.N. H.M.S. Mars. No. 1517 (Labourer at Engineering works).  Place of Birth is listed as 62 Brunswick Street, Stockton on Tees.</p>
<p>The birth was registered by Jane Marsh of 3 Unicorn Yard, High Street, Stockton on Tees.</p>
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